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46 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1997, Canada

Journals of the Senate

Issue 8

Thursday, October 9, 1997
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Bonnell, Bosa, Butts, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cools, Corbin, DeWare, Doody, Doyle, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Forest, Forrestall, Gigantès, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Haidasz, Hays, Hébert, Hervieux-Payette, Jessiman, Kelleher, Kelly, Kinsella, Kirby, Lavoie-Roux, Lawson, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lucier, Lynch-Staunton, MacDonald, Maheu, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Oliver, Pearson, Perrault, Petten, Pitfield, Poulin, Prud'homme, Robertson, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), St. Germain, Simard, Spivak, Stanbury, Stewart, Stollery, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan, Wood

PRAYERS.

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills

The Honourable Senator Carstairs presented Bill S-5, An Act to amend the Canada Evidence Act and the Criminal Code in respect of persons with disabilities, to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act in respect of persons with disabilities and other matters and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

The Bill was read the first time.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (L'Acadie-Acadia), that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading on Tuesday next, October 14, 1997.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations

The Honourable Senator Oliver tabled the following:

Report of the Canadian Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union regarding its participation at the Specialized Inter-Parliamentary Conference on "Towards Partnership Between Men and Women in Politics", held at New Delhi, India, from February 14 to 18, 1997.-Sessional Paper No. 1\36-78.

The Honourable Senator Comeau tabled the following:

Report of the Canadian Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union regarding its participation at the 97th Inter-Parliamentary Conference, held at Seoul, Republic of Korea, from April 9 to 15, 1997.-Sessional Paper No. 1\36-79.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Motions

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams:

That the Senate do unite with the House of Commons in the appointment of a Special Joint Committee of the Senate and the House of Commons to study matters related to the proposed resolution respecting a proposed Amendment to Section 93 of the Constitution Act, 1867 concerning the Quebec school system;

That seven Members of the Senate and sixteen Members of the House of Commons be members of the Committee;

That the Committee be directed to consult broadly and review such information as it deems appropriate with respect to this issue;

That the Committee have the power to sit during sittings and adjournments of the Senate;

That the Committee have the power to report from time to time, to send for persons, papers, and records, and to print such papers and evidence as may be ordered by the Committee;

That the Committee have the power to retain the services of expert, professional technical and clerical staff;

That the quorum of the Committee be twelve members whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken, so long as both Houses are represented, and that the Joint Chairpersons be authorized to hold meetings, to receive evidence and authorize the printing thereof, whenever six members are present, so long as both Houses are represented;

That the Committee be empowered to appoint, from among its members, such sub-committees as may be deemed advisable, and to delegate to such sub-committees all or any of its powers except the power to report to the Senate and the House of Commons;

That the Committee be empowered to authorize television and radio broadcasting of any or all of its proceedings;

That the Committee make its final report no later than November 7, 1997;

That, notwithstanding usual practices, if the Senate or the House of Commons are not sitting when the final report of the Committee is completed, the report may be deposited with the Clerk of the House which is not sitting, and or the Clerks of both Houses if neither House is then sitting, and the report shall thereupon be deemed to have presented in that House, or both Houses, as the case may be; and

That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly,

And on the motion In amendment of the Honourable Senator Wood, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cools, that the motion be amended by deleting

(a) paragraph 10 thereof and substituting the following:

"That the Committee make its final report no later than December 31, 1997;"; and

(b) paragraph 12 thereof and substituting the following :

"That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly and to request that the Commons concur in the amendment made by the Senate extending the reporting date of the Committee to December 31, 1997.".

After debate, In amendment, the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Simard, that the motion be amended by

(a) adding the following after paragraph 9; and

"That the Committee be authorized to hold hearings in the province of Quebec;" and

(b) replacing the twelfth paragraph with the following:

"That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly and to request that the Commons concur in the amendment made by the Senate authorizing the Committee to travel in the province of Quebec.".

After debate, The Honourable Senator Simard moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Beaudoin Comeau Doyle Forrestall Kinsella Lavoie- Roux Le Breton Lynch- Staunton Murray Oliver Prud'hom me Si mard Spi vak Wood-1 4

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Adams Bacon Bosa Butts Cal lbeck Carstairs Cools Corbin Fairbairn Ferretti Barth Fo rest Gi gantès Grafstein Graham Haidasz Hays Hé bert Her vieux- Payette Kirby Lo sier-Cool Maheu Mercier Milne Pearson Petten Poulin Robi chaud (Saint- Louis-de- Kent) Stanbury Stewart Stollery Taylor Watt Whe lan-33

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Nil

The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., and the motions in amendment of the Honourable Senator Wood and the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C.

After debate,

The question was put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C. Pursuant to Rule 67(2), a recorded division was deferred until 5:30 p.m. at the next sitting.

With leave of the Senate,

The Honourable Senator Cools tabled the following:

Document entitled: "The Proposal to Amend Section 93 (Education) of the Constitution Act, 1867: Briefing Book", dated September 24, 1997.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-80S.

Bills

Orders No. 1 (Bill S-2) and 2 (Bill S-3) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Motions

Orders No. 1 and 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting. The Honourable Senator Pearson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Carstairs:

That a Special Joint Committee of the Senate and the House of Commons be appointed to examine and analyze issues relating to parenting arrangements after separation and divorce, and in particular, to assess the need for a more child-centred approach to family law policies and practices that would emphasize parental responsibilities rather than parental rights and child-focused parenting arrangements based on children's needs and best interests;

That seven Members of the Senate and sixteen Members of the House of Commons be members of the Committee with two Joint Chairpersons;

That changes in the membership, on the part of the House of Commons of the Committee be effective immediately after a notification signed by the member acting as the chief Whip of any recognized party has been filed with the clerk of the Committee;

That the Committee be directed to consult broadly, examine relevant research studies and literature and review models being used or developed in other jurisdictions;

That the Committee have the power to sit during sittings and adjournments of the Senate;

That the Committee have the power to report from time to time, to send for persons, papers and records, and to print such papers and evidence as may be ordered by the Committee;

That the Committee have the power to retain the services of expert, professional, technical and clerical staff, including legal counsel;

That a quorum of the Committee be twelve members whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken so long as both Houses are represented and the Joint Chairpersons will be authorized to hold meetings, to receive evidence and authorize the printing thereof, whenever six members are present, so long as both Houses are represented;

That the Committee be empowered to appoint, from among its members, such subcommittees as may be deemed advisable, and to delegate to such subcommittees, all or any of its power except the power to report to the Senate and House of Commons;

That the Committee be empowered to authorize television and radio broadcasting of any or all of its proceedings; and

That the Committee make its final report no later than November 30, 1998; and

That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Watt, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stanbury:

That the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance be authorized to examine and report upon the expenditures set out in the Estimates for the fiscal year ending the 31st March, 1998, with the exception of Parliament Vote 10 and Privy Council Vote 25.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (L'Acadie-Acadia):

That the Standing Joint Committee on Official Languages be authorized to examine the expenditures set out in Privy Council Vote 25 of the Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1998; and

That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Grafstein:

That the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament be authorized to examine the expenditures set out in Parliament Vote 10 of the Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1998; and

That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bacon:

That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House of the names of the Honourable Senators appointed to serve on the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament; the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations; and the Standing Joint Committee on Official Languages.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

OTHER BUSINESS

Other

Orders No. 2 and 1 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

The Senate adjourned at pleasure to resume at the call of the bell at approximately 6:00 p.m.

The sitting resumed.

With leave of the Senate,

The request for a deferred division on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., to the motion of the Honourable Senator Graham was rescinded.

With leave,

The Senate reverted to ORDERS OF THE DAY, GOVERNMENT BUSINESS, Motions. The question was put on the motions in amendment of the Honourable Senators Prud'homme, P.C., and Wood to the motion of the Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams: